Wednesday, July 29, 2015

The Wikipedia Page that Wasn't: Wikipedia Won't Take a Chance on the Bosnian Pyramids

Wikipedia Continues to Reject a Page about Five International Scientific Conferences on the Bosnian Pyramids

Draft article rejected by Wikipedia

The First in a Series of Articles about Wikipedia's Continuing Rejection of Information on the Bosnian Pyramid Complex

by Jock Doubleday

[ Please Note: The page submitted to Wikipedia in early 2015, and resubmitted twice thereafter, is not about the existence of pyramids in Bosnia. It does not argue for or against the idea of pyramids in Bosnia. The page is simply a chronology of events -- including speakers, paper titles, dates, and times -- at five separate international scientific conferences on the Bosnian Pyramids that took place in Sarajevo and Visoko, Bosnia between 2008 and 2014. These five international scientific conferences did take place. Hundreds of people from around the world attended them, and scores of scientists who had investigated the structures in the Visoko, Bosnia area were invited to read papers at them. These conferences should therefore be included in any objective world encyclopedia, whether or not the Bosnian Pyramids hypothesis is accepted. ]

Fifth International Scientific Conference on the Bosnian Pyramids (ICBP 2014)
September 6, 2014 -- Press Conference

Three Rejections by Wikipedia Editors (in reverse chronology):

[ Please Note: The responses by Eclipsed and Primefac are cookie-cutter (form, prefabricated) responses. They were not written by the editors in question and do not address the text of the page in question. Nor were any of the reasonable objections (see below) to the three rejections engaged by any Wikipedia editor at any time. ]

Submission declined on 11 July 2015 by Eclipsed (form letter response):

"This submission appears to read more like an advertisement than an entry in an encyclopedia. Encyclopedia articles need to be written from a neutral point of view, and should refer to a range of independent, reliable, published sources, not just to materials produced by the creator of the subject being discussed. This is important so that the article can meet Wikipedia's verifiability policy and the notability of the subject can be established. If you still feel that this subject is worthy of inclusion in Wikipedia, please rewrite your submission to comply with these policies. You are encouraged to make improvements by clicking on the "Edit" tab at the top of this page. If you require extra help, please ask a question on the Articles for creation help desk, ask the reviewer that declined your submission, or get help at our live help chat from experienced editors."

Submission declined on 14 February 2015 by StarryGrandma:

"A short description of the conferences should be added to the article Bosnian pyramid claims. Wikipedia is not the place to list conference proceedings. The Bosnian pyramids are hills that have an entry in the Encyclopedia of Dubious Archaeology."

Submission declined on 29 January 2015 by Primefac (form letter response):

"This submission reads more like an essay than an encyclopedia article. Submissions should summarise information in secondary, reliable sources and not contain opinions or original research. Please write about the topic from a neutral point of view in an encyclopedic manner." 

Screen-grab of the three Wikipedia editors' rejections:
Article Submission (full text)

To read the full text of the article submission that three Wikipedia editors rejected, please visit:

"Draft:International Scientific Conferences on the Bosnian Pyramids"

If you desire to read the whole article, please give yourself at least an hour to get through the body of the text -- something that Wikipedia editors have been for some reason unwilling to do -- and several weeks to check the links.

Reasonable Objections to the First Rejection (January 29, 2015) Not Engaged by Any Wikipedia Editor

None of the copious, detailed, and reasonable objections to the first rejection of the article were engaged by any Wikipedia editor at any time.

Below is the full text of the reasonable objections to Primefac's (the first) rejection of the page:

"User talk:Jockdoubleday (link here)

"Hi Primefac,

"Thanks for your help editing the article by inserting "cite web" instead of "source" in the article's numerous html "References" templates.

"You commented the following on the Draft of the article after it was declined ("Submission declined on 29 January 2015 by Primefac"):

"Comment: The sections on the individual conferences should not contain a blow-by-blow account of what happened. It is entirely irrelevant that at 10am participants were taken into a tunnel (an example). This draft should present a short, concise summary of what the ICBP does and the major themes of the conferences. Primefac (talk) 15:31, 29 January 2015 (UTC)

"I believe that a whole-cloth declining of this article, which chronicles the events of five scientific conferences over seven years, and which therefore, even as a strict chronology, necessitates a lengthy treatment, is unfair.

"The textual problems you have cited are minimal and could be edited out by anyone -- you, myself, any editor -- in a few minutes, and probably would have been edited out virtually immediately by Wiki editors, had the article been left up. Why has the entire article been declined because of a less-than-1%-text problem (tour times and destinations)? The vast majority, 99+%, of the article is dates, times, names, and locations of speaker presentations, and of course reliable sources for those bare facts. (By the way, the reason for the inclusion of tour times is not so that people reading the article can learn about the tours but so that they will understand why, for instance, there was only one speaker a day for three days in a row before the weekend speaker marathon -- and that reason is simply that the participants and attendees were on tours during the day, and therefore they had time for only one speaker presentation each evening. However, if tour times and locations must go, they must go.)

"You asserted in your comment above that the article should be a "summary." Since the five conferences consisted of speaker events (89 speakers in five conferences), and since the article is a chronology of speaker events, the article cannot be a summary. And there would be no reason to create a summary, since Wikipedia readers couldn't learn from that article who the speakers were, what their papers were about, nor would readers be able to follow links to the specific topics spoken about to see, through text and photos and video, if they found the evidence and arguments on those topics to be reasonable. A summary of the conference would not do what Wikipedia does best and what Wikipedia has set out to do: give the exacting details of a subject.

Out-of-place Artifacts curator Klaus Dona gives a presentation at the
Fifth International Scientific Conference on the Bosnian Pyramids in
Sarajevo, Bosnia

"Further, as you may know, the subject of the Bosnian pyramids is highly controversial. So I think it behooves Wikipedia not to rush toward the declining of an article on the Bosnian pyramids but to maintain at least the appearance of a rigorous stance of neutrality, otherwise known as "the principle of endeavoring not to appear biased." I'm not saying that Wikipedia is biased in this case, but I believe (I may be wrong) that Wikipedia would want to maintain the appearance of not being biased by allowing an article on a controversial subject to stay up longer than 10 minutes before declining it. Allowing the article to stay up for several days in Draft or Review form, for instance, would give many Wiki editors a chance to chime in on textual matters, so that the article could be change based on editorial consensus. And if eventual rejection were the consensus, then many editors would be involved in the decision and presumably right to reject it on whatever grounds were offered.

"To reiterate:

"1) You said in your comment notes (embedded five paragraphs above) that I should make the article a "summary," but a summary doesn't give the details of the conferences, and the details are the point of the article;

"2) You said in your comment notes above that the article should state the "themes" of the conferences. I would not say that the five international scientific conferences on the Bosnian pyramids had unique themes but that they have been wedded to one theme: the verifiable fact that, for ten years, the scientific method has discovered, probed, and made conclusions about various aspects of an ancient pyramid complex in Bosnia. But this theme is a bare one sentence long and does not need a Wikipedia article for it. What readers of an article on the Bosnian pyramids conferences need is not simply the conference theme stated in one sentence but the details of the playing out of that theme, the details of the scientific conferences themselves, to which hundreds of researchers and interested parties have traveled from many different countries for seven years. Without a complete list of the speakers' names, their credentials, their paper titles, their dates and times of speaking, what use would the article be to anyone? How could Wikipedia readers even begin to form their own opinions about a pyramid complex in Bosnia without these details to work from? And since these factual, voluminous, and verifiable details are what the article presently consists of, why has it been officially declined by Wikipedia?

"Thank for your considered reply, and I look forward to hearing from you.

"Jockdoubleday (talk) 17:11, 29 January 2015 (UTC)"

[ Please Note: To date, no response has been made to any of the reasonable objections above. ]  

Wikipedia Editors Are Anonymous! Why?

Why are Wikipedia editors anonymous?  

Anonymous persons have no accountability! They can say or do anything they like, while they hide behind a handle like "Primefac" or "StarryGrandma" or "Eclipsed." 

Who are these people? Who gave them the power to decline entire articles because *someone* said the subject matter is "dubious"? 

Shouldn't Wikipedia editors be proud of their editing and therefore put their names on all the articles they have worked on? Should Wikipedia editors have up-to-date photos prominently displayed on their pages? 

Who are the anonymous persons who are controlling the world's information? Only Wikipedia insiders know.

"Dubious Archaeology"?

On March 28, 2015, I submitted an article to Wikinews detailing Dr. Paul LaViolette's public statements on the Bosnian Pyramid Complex.

The article was rejected immediately, on several grounds, one of which was that the Bosnian Pyramids are considered by Wikipedia to be "dubious archaeology."

"The Wikinews Article that Wasn't: Wikinews Rejects Article about the Bosnian Pyramids: 'Newsworthiness Not Established'" (

The reason Wikinews classifies the Bosnian Pyramids under "dubious archaeology" is that one man, Kenneth L. Feder, a professor at Central Connecticut State University, authored an encyclopedia titled, The Encyclopedia of Dubious Archaeology and included the Bosnian Pyramids in that work.

Professor Kenneth L. Feder, author of
The Encyclopedia of Dubious Archaeology,

at Sego Canyon

Below is a letter I wrote to Professor Feder on July 28, 2015 (screen-grab of a Microsoft Word document):

Shockingly, it seems that uninformed (indeed willfully ignorant) persons, such as Kenneth L. Feder at Central Connecticut State University, are the "experts" whom anonymous Wikipedia editors are quoting to justify preventing real data and real science from being included in Wikipedia's database.

And so, we have one more Wikipedia Page that Wasn't. How many millions of unfairly rejected pages are there?

Saturday, July 25, 2015

Sarajevo filmmakers visit the Bosnian Pyramid Complex, July 23, 2015

On July 23, 2015, documentarians from Sarajevo visited the Bosnian Pyramid Complex.

They met with Dr. Semir Osmanagich, discoverer of the Bosnian Pyramids, at Ravne Tunnel Labyrinth, a prehistoric tunnel that winds for tens of kilometers beneath the pyramid complex.

For more information on the Bosnian Pyramids Project, please visit the Facebook page:

Semir Osmanagić, Public Figure

And the official Foundation web site is here:

Archaeological Park: Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun Foundation


Further research:

Archaeological Park Videos

Archaeological Park Official Youtube Channel
An American in Bosnia blog

Wednesday, July 8, 2015

Testimonials from Visitors to the Bosnian Pyramid Complex

Admissions house at the entrance to Ravne Tunnel Labyrinth in Visoko, Bosnia.

Entrance to prehistoric Ravne Tunnel Labyrinth in Visoko, Bosnia.


"From: Linda Adams [] 

Sent: 01 July 2015

Subject: Bosnian Summer Solstice

We enjoyed everything so much, although the 16 hour day trip was pretty exhausting, but we survived and enjoyed it enormously. After the first visit into the tunnels, my neck, which has been somewhat arthritic for a number of years, seemed to be less painful. I don't ever take pain killers. However, since then it has improved tremendously and I can now turn my head fairly well and not have to move my whole body to look at somebody. Although not perfect I no longer have constant pain!!! Such a bonus on top of everything else. We also found the evening conferences mind boggling, and lovely to actually speak to other people who are on the same wave length.
Kind regards,

Linda and Chris Adams"

One of many side-tunnels in Ravne Tunnel Labyrinth.
Please note the dry-stack stone supporting walls on either side. These walls
were placed there by the unknown advanced culture that filled in the tunnels

an estimated 4,600 years ago.

*  *  *

"I spent 40 minutes in Ravne Tunnel, this Tuesday, July 7, 2015, with a friend from Slovenia. We spent some quiet meditative time in the Meditation Chamber and then visited all of the megaliths and marveled at the new discoveries since our last visit (like the exhibition of different stone material found so far, among others). After these 40 minutes, we both felt like we had just slept for 10 hours! The pressure in my eyes, which had made the road to Visoko somewhat blurry to me, was gone as well, and I was delighted to see super well as we drove back to Sarajevo."

Asja Dupanović Gavrilescu

Asja Dupanović Gavrilescu on Facebook

Asja (right) and her mother at Ravne Tunnel Labyrinth (on another occasion)

*  *  *

"When I came out of the tunnels . . . I felt the energy, and I started running up the street, up and down, you know? Which was the first time I was running in seven years' time after my accident! And I have the energy since. I couldn't do this, at all [squat]. I had to have support. And I went to the hotel, and I said, "Klaus, look, I felt this thing happening in the tunnels." And when I came out, I was running up and down the stairs. And everyone was like, What? What?' . . . I felt the energy boiling up, you know, and I felt like, hey, you know, I can do something! And I was running up the stairs. . . . It's not perfect, but I couldn't do any of this before. It's great. That's why I'm so happy to be back, here. Re-energized my batteries. We just had, what, two or three hours, two and-a-half hours, in the tunnels? That's the longest ever. So I'm sure I'll be fine for another year, now."
André De Smet
Transcribed from the video, "Andre de Smet and Michael Tellinger outside Ravne Tunnel Labyrinth, September 2, 2014"

André De Smet
on Facebook

 André De Smet and Michael Tellinger

*  *  *

"I am a bit claustrophobic and didn't feel all too well the morning before visiting Ravne tunnels, but as we were entering, all the problems and anxiety were disappearing. What shocked me most was that the air inside them was of a quality of the one on top of the mountain!!! I definitely came out with a much better mood and feeling great. Afterwards, me and my two 6 year old daughters went for lunch and ate like never before in our lives, including Alma who is sort of problematic when it comes to eating!!! People claim that what I felt was a placebo, auto-suggestion, but, you know what, even if it was, I don't care I felt sooooo goooood! I felt great after visiting there and definitely want to come back again. I was worried about the girls but obviously kids like it as well :) It was amazing that we spent an hour underground and came out like we were high up in the mountains skiing or something."
Arijana Mangafic-Acimovic
after visiting Ravne runnels for the first time August 1, 2015

Arijana on Facebook

Arijana's children

*  *  *

"A group of friends and I traveled to Bosnia to see and FEEL for ourselves, the power latent there. I was entranced by the talks of Dr. Osmanagich and the potential of the discovery. It's completely obvious that the structure is a pyramid and yet understandable how it wasn't noticed before: hidden in plain sight, as they say. So the mystical journey began. A little of ourselves; we are all meditators, energy practitioners, psychic to some degree or another, so we were looking to feel another perspective and perhaps add something to the puzzle. The first experience is how easy it is to breathe in the tunnels; and not just breathe, really fill the lungs with air in a way never really experienced before. I just took advantage and breathed and enjoyed breathing!! Might sound like nothing, but after London, and even Oxford, breathing is an unaccustomed luxury these days, certainly in this way. We were all keen to sit silently and meditate in our own way, and we chose a spot, at a junction with a higher "roof," a part which is called "the healing room." Having read about the negative ion concentrations and health-giving properties of the air and energy, we all settled to sit in silence, to meditate. Then when someone said "ok" we were all surprised because we all thought we had sat for five minutes -- and yet it was an hour! The meditation was very deep and revivifying, powerful, connecting with an old energy that was lying deep within. One member of our party said, "it felt like we connected with 'original Source energy.'" When we meditated by the huge K-2 monolith, another of us saw energy rising into the monolith, hitting the crystals inside (which was seen) and shooting into the body. It was a very strong experience. Again the meditation was deep for all of us. So it seemed to us all, that the energy contained within the tunnels was somehow beneficially conducive to allowing the body to relax such that deeper access to OUR OWN SELVES was eminently possible. Perhaps this is part of the answer -- one of the reasons for construction by an intelligence that knew that to function correctly, the body and mind have to be completely stilled to access the greater and deeper part of Ourselves."
Mark Laurence Rodel-Duffy 
after visiting Ravne Tunnel on June 17, 2015

Mark Laurence Rodel-Duffy (right) and friends.
*  *  *

For more information on the Bosnian Pyramids Project, please visit the Facebook page:

Semir Osmanagić, Public Figure

And the official Foundation web site is here:

Archaeological Park: Bosnian Pyramid of the Sun Foundation


Further research:

Archaeological Park Videos

Archaeological Park Official Youtube Channel
An American in Bosnia blog